Humankind

Docktor Kain's Pollution Rework for Humankind

Released (updated ago). Ranked 236 of 1,731 with 440 (0 today) downloads

Published by DocktorKain (mod ID: 1662957)

thibault-girard-edo-vs-stbasil-.jpg

This mod reworks Pollution with the following goals in mind:

  • 1) Pollution should be inevitable . The only way to not pollute at all is to not industrialize and lose the lategame exponential bonuses;
  • 2) Mechanically, pollution should punish the leading players the most;
  • 3) Low pollution should be easy to come by and very mild in its effects;
  • 4) Heavy pollution should only happen if you're careless about it but its effects can be harder;
  • 5) Pollution endgame should only appear if you're actively going for it.


For full patch notes, check: Docs.google.com

Big thanks to Shakee for inspiration with his own Pollution Rework mod.

Releases

FilenameSizeVersionAddedOptions
132857066980350377_1662957.zip23.98kb1.2.1

132856378826616770_1662957.zip22.05kb1.2.0

132855968704538263_1662957.zip19.58kb1.1.0

132854374170251085_1662957.zip21.74kb1.0.1

132853007726251923_1662957.zip19.26kb-

132853007609800602_1662957.zip17.06kb1.0.0

6 comments

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RM
RaphaelMart @raphaelmart

Don't know if it's intended but the Sewage Treatment Plant infra is negatively affecting the nature reserve by taking 10% of its benefit

DocktorKain
DocktorKain @docktorkain

100% not intended

Chinag
Chinag @chinag

I'm not fully a fan of the changes to the technologies. Research should give you a positive bonuses or new options for your empire. (Exceptions exists though, like the charter that makes you unable to sacrifice population).

Right now, it feels frustrating to be punished with heavy pollution if you went heavy with districts without any options except to not research the tech, except y'know it's (usually) a requirement tech to progress the game.

I think the infrastructures that gives you bonuses + pollution gave the player enough agency between the choice of "good yields but pollution" or "i won't risk it". Having the pollution maluses directly tied to technology you research not only removes your ability to choose, but my cities still entered low pollution even though I built zero pollution infrastructures purely from all the districts I built the whole game suddenly gives me negative bonus because I progressed the game. I feel like I'm being punished for engaging in two of the game's main systems.

And lastly, from an immersive standpoint: why would new research purely give me a negative bonus? It's clear that developing new tools and adopting new technologies has both pros and cons, but from how it stands right now the game is basically saying: "We have replaced our old tools with these new babies that doesn't really make us more efficient but it sure as hell is making our environment worse!"

If you're going to stick with new research making old stuff start to pollute, atleast give us some bonuses to show that there's a reason we got these new tools. But again, you might not want to adopt the new tools if there's cons to it, maybe if it was something you could build so those who's willing to take it can get it while those that don't want to could ignore it...

DocktorKain
DocktorKain @docktorkain

First of all, I want to thank you for your feedback and long comment. Its always great when people goes through the thought and effort of a constructive criticism.

About the issues you present: None of the techs are "purely negative". All the techs that got added polluting effects do passively benefit your empire - usually they're at the same moment you get the -20% district cost (Steam Engine gives +1 pollution on Makers and -20% Makers cost; Scientific Method is +1 pollution on Researchers and -20% Researcher cost; Wireless Telegraph is +1 pollution on Hamlets and -20% Hamlet cost), so you can interpret that as negative side effects of the cost reduction advance.

There are exceptions, though. First, the Market discount is at Electricity, but I moved the market pollution to Aerial Combat because Electricity already has a huge pollution penalty attached to it (more on that soon) and I wanted to spread it in another tech, and second one is the Harbour one, as there's no Harbour discount, so I placed it along with the +% money on Naval trade routes.

Lastly, the only techs that create pollution beyond those are the ones that increase FIMS with strategic resources - Electricity, Nuclear Fission, Power Lines. Those are key technologies that increase your FIMS by a lot and come with a pollution price tag attached, so you gotta be mindful of them. All in all, pollution is seen in this mod as an undesirable effect of advancement and industrialization.

Second, I disagree with your assessment of "I think the infrastructures that gives you bonuses + pollution gave the player enough agency (...)" What happened in my experience is that you could simply ignore the polluting infra (save for a few key ones) and keep increasing your FIMS with more districts. In the end, it led to players simply ignoring the pollution subsystem alltogether with next to no repercussions.

By making pollution mandatory - you'll accrue pollution naturally as you progress through the tech tree - you force the player to interact with the pollution subsystem and be mindful of it. This allow us to use the pollution system as a sure way to counteract the lategame stability bloat and present interesting challenges to the top players.

Third, "my cities still entered low pollution even though I built zero pollution infrastructures " is intended behaviour with this mod. There are only a handful of pollution infra (and I'm reducing their pollution on a new version I'm uploading today) and you should be building things (infra, forests and nature reserves) to FIGHT pollution, not to create it.

Chinag
Chinag @chinag

Thank you for your big response! Suppose I can respond to them too.

I didn't have problems with the FIMS increases from strategic resources, it sounds like we're adopting new tools for better productivity but worse pollution, simple to understand.

Still not a fan of the -distrcit cost for +1 pollution though, that just makes less sense for me. How come new ways to make the district faster makes my old already finished districts worse? The bonus feels counter-productive to me too: why would I want to build more districts that further puts me into low pollution therritory?

I think it ultimately comes to our playstyles though: I usually like to merge cities so in the lategame my cities are usually 7-10 territories big with a dozen of mixed districts in each territory. So each time I got a tech that added pollution to a district, it plunged my big cities over the treshold and plummeted my stability from 100% to 0%. It just forced me to spam commonQ and garrisons because of a stability swing I didn't entirely have an option for which just soured my lategame experience.

As for the people opting to ignore pollution altogheter, I do agree that it's a problem. Personally I would make the path of pollution more enticing to pursue than to slap the non-polluter in the wrist. The repurcussion should be the opportunity cost. Then again, I can see why you didn't do that because making an infra be stronger than district spamming would require rebalancing the whole endgame around it... For me, going the non-pollution way felt like I got the worst of both paths: ignored the power-spike and yet got hit by the pollution penalties.

Sidenote, did you know that the city breakdown for stability is kinda dumb? Aside from not summarising all the darn numbers, if you have -1000 negative stability and only +800 stability, the breakdown only shows -800 negative stability. If you added +20 stability then the negative breakdown just adds a -20 stability to match, making you unable to know how deep in the red you actually are. Thanks Amplitude.

Thank you for responding, I'll have to see if the new update makes the pollution less annoying.

DocktorKain
DocktorKain @docktorkain

Uploading a new patch right now that does two things: first, reduces the pollution from FIMS techs by 33% (from 1 per quarter to 0.66 per quarter). Secondly, making it so you can build Nature Reserves at low stab so you can use that more effectively.

On the stability breakdown: the "BASE STABILITY" should be 40, but it adjusts based on how far you are either over 100 or under 0. To find how much is your REAL stability, just use the following formulas: 40 - Base Stab = how much your stab is over 100, or Base Stab - 40 = how much your stab is under 0